tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post6498141981310309168..comments2024-01-05T11:00:30.673-06:00Comments on DFW Point-to-Point: Myths in Conflict – Bike LanesSteve Ahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-65083703547855966902011-02-26T15:05:41.103-06:002011-02-26T15:05:41.103-06:00Hi Khal, I was not concerned with your comment. I ...Hi Khal, I was not concerned with your comment. I was concerned that Anonymous had gotten the wrong message via his comment "...for crying out loud....Nazi's?"<br /><br />Whatever either of our comments were intended to mean, the notion that bike lanes are part of a plot to viciously EXTERMINATE cyclists was the furthest thing from my mind and I'm sure from yours as well.<br /><br />As for the Autobahn and speed mismatch. Certainly mismatched speeds often create no problems at all, depending on traffic levels and availability of passing provisions. Absolute speeds seem to play little role. Which is why you rarely hear of motorists getting killed by running over debris on rural interstates. They simply avoid it and it eventually gets picked up.Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-37768794052633192712011-02-26T10:55:59.209-06:002011-02-26T10:55:59.209-06:00Hi, Steve. My comment wasn't meant to say the ...Hi, Steve. My comment wasn't meant to say the Nazis had nothing to do with forcing bicyclists onto cycletracks, but that this policy had already begun before they took power. Same reference as yours, I suspect.<br /><br />http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/history.html<br /><br />My comment about "untervehicles" was meant to be a joke. Sorry if you took it as a slam.<br /><br />Volk should recall that Hitler was having Ferdinand Porsche design the "People's Car", aka the Volkswagen, in the thirties as well as enthisiastically building the Autobahn. So efforts to segregate cyclists for motoring efficiency wouldn't surprise me. It also doesn't surprise me if the Nazis banned bicycle associations. Hell, they banned most associations.<br /><br />One final comment. Reading on Wiki about the autobahn, its routine to have vehicles driving on the Autobahn with 40 km/hr or more speed differential. Allegedly, done relatively safely, albeit when you crash at high speed, its not pretty. So to those who argue that mismatched speed vehicles (i.e., bicycles and motor vehicles) cannot share the same road, maybe we ought to study the Autobahn as a counter-example.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org<br />/wiki/German_Autobahnen#Speed_limitsKhalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866897914538110672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-39130794479627498332011-02-23T21:15:04.073-06:002011-02-23T21:15:04.073-06:00Re getting cyclists off the road by Nazis. #1 - it...Re getting cyclists off the road by Nazis. #1 - it had nothing to do with the Nazi Eugenics theories that led to millions of murders. I apologize if my statement even suggested such a comparison. #2 - It is fact that the Nazis restricted the ability of cyclists to travel on the roads. In; "1934: New German legal instruments to address "the problem of disciplining cyclists" who did not use cycle tracks. Bicycle associations outlawed by Nazi regime. (Source notes that by this time the legal obligation to use cycle paths already existed in most countries.)"<br /><br />Personally, I have not researched the question, but I suspect that the bans had more to do with the German motor industry than any Nazi ideology. Remember that this was also the time they were building the autobahns. It was a mistake to mention it in connection with bike lanes, since bike lanes weren't really around and they were trying to force the cyclists onto separate tracks.Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-72600572980383279732011-02-23T12:58:39.046-06:002011-02-23T12:58:39.046-06:00Very nice commentary. As a cyclist, I feel safe i...Very nice commentary. As a cyclist, I feel safe in bike lanes or taking the lane. I think there needs to be a realization that bike lanes and bicycle zealotry or dictatorships don't help anyone in the biking community. Let's all work together to make things better for everyone. <br /><br />And for crying out loud....Nazi's? Really? That's stretching it. And I'm sure the Jewish community would not appreciate the comparison of bike lanes to genocide...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-76779887668885585642011-02-21T10:32:02.316-06:002011-02-21T10:32:02.316-06:00According to a couple (web?) sources, cycletracks ...According to a couple (web?) sources, cycletracks in Germany preceded the Nazis. The first source gives 1926 as the date cyclepaths were made mandatory for German cyclists, which would have put it squarely in the Weimar Republic days. Hitler didn't take power till 1933; the Nazis didn't have more than a handful of seats in the Reichstag until 1930. <br /><br />But that would be a blog entry that would be sure to rouse a lot of discussion and, shall we say, passion: A picture of Adolf Hitler with the label: "The original champion of segregated bicycling facilities".<br /><br />Untervehicles?<br /><br />http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/history.html<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_cycle_facilitiesKhalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866897914538110672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-7344234848753062032011-02-21T08:01:32.967-06:002011-02-21T08:01:32.967-06:00In truth, the whole deal of separated bike facilit...In truth, the whole deal of separated bike facilities was largely pioneered by the Nazis to get the pesky cyclists off the road. We DO need better advocates - like ones that not willing to trade our safety in the name of "something"...Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-87972780362633871402011-02-21T07:49:14.642-06:002011-02-21T07:49:14.642-06:00Around Philadelphia the bicycle groups also seem t...Around Philadelphia the bicycle groups also seem to be of the "no such thing as a bad facility mindset" The latest promotion has been bike lanes on a city bridge (South St.) that was renovated after being planned for years and closed for months for rebuilding. The bike lanes are still painted to the right of RTOL lanes onto I-76. When I asked about this, I was told it's a bad design that needs to be fixed. <br /><br />At a suburban meeting when another bicyclist asked if bike lanes are really the best way to accommodate bicyclists in an West Chester with narrow lanes, low speed limits, close destinations and congested traffic, she was told we can't afford to debate the merits of bike lanes - we'll never get them installed if we insist on safe ones in appropriate locations.<br /><br />Motorists have been quite vocal in their support of these lanes. Since they think bicyclists are only allowed to ride in marked bike lanes and most streets don't have them, they have told me bicyclists are not legally allowed to use more than a few roads. <br /><br />AngeloAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-63450530329878219662011-02-21T07:32:58.290-06:002011-02-21T07:32:58.290-06:00I didn't say it would be easy. They obviously ...I didn't say it would be easy. They obviously didn't put those lanes in for you either! Politicians and non-cycling traffic boffins are a nasty combo!Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-6935590465840973342011-02-21T03:39:49.238-06:002011-02-21T03:39:49.238-06:00Yebbut. What happens when a BAD bike lane replaces...Yebbut. What happens when a BAD bike lane replaces a reasonable bike lane?<br /><br />In Londonton these days we have sponsored "bike s-u-u-u-u-perhighways, intended to encourage people onto bikes. Generally poorly received by the cycling community, they do sometimes have positive benefits (things like mirrors for lorries at traffic lights). However the biggest abortion of a bike lane has to be reserved for the one out East, heading for the Olympics. Leaving aside the local council's decision NOT to support it in their Borough, so it stops dead two miles before the Olympic Park it was an opportunity to improve the facilities.<br /><br />BUT. What actually happened.<br /><br /><a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mile+End+Road,+Poplar&aq=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.014358,39.067383&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Mile+End+Rd,+Poplar,+Greater+London,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.526032,-0.030269&spn=0.000858,0.002647&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.526033,-0.030266&panoid=DzXrN207vJTKv9wF4s7uzQ&cbp=12,258.18,,0,5" rel="nofollow">Here is the before</a>, a fairly standard bike lane. Note if you will, the fairly standard obstacles, the two lanes (which in rush hour are bumper to bumper traffic). In particular, note the unusually wide pavement (looks the same as a sidewalk, strangely enough) which is very sparsely used at any time. So, you might have thought that the obvious way to improve facilities for cyclist would be to incorporate a lane onto the pavement or increase the width of the road. But no. The obligatory 2m wide stripe of magic blue paint went down ( <a href="http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/07/02/cycle-superhighways-looking-well-a-bit-rubbish/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/07/02/cycle-superhighways-looking-well-a-bit-rubbish/</a>) exactly as is. Unsurprisingly, the traffic in the nearside lane has no room to move an so occupies the lane. Whereas previously, bikes and cars shared the space with an uneasy truce, now there is no reasonable like for the driver to follow. Again unsurpisingly, traffic now drives closer to the kerb than they did previously, and our safety on bikes is seriously compromised.Hamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17182921009517833997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-146077352805952022011-02-19T18:22:47.148-06:002011-02-19T18:22:47.148-06:00Danc, read Khal's experience with his bike lan...Danc, read Khal's experience with his bike lane. I think he's gonna go get that thing dashed where it approaches the intersection. It might not be making a silk purse, but he'll leave things better than he found them.<br /><br />As I noted, they don't put bike lanes in for me - or you or Khal either. When bike lanes start getting put in all over North Texas, I WILL be on the record in each case where a governing body has ignored good practice to put a danger in place. Some lawyer will possibly thank me later, or maybe an "easy to do" improvement will make the lawyer unnneeded. Hopefully, it will not be a lawyer associated with someone personally known to me or my family.<br /><br />I think that is consistent with the "do no harm" guidance.Steve Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650405341304401203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-47364810385499742812011-02-19T18:08:31.934-06:002011-02-19T18:08:31.934-06:00Sadly, installing any bike lane is the "gold ...Sadly, installing any bike lane is the "gold standard" of bikey friendliness. <br /><br />Regarding "getting it [bike lane] made better". I can't recall anyone making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Better do no harm?<br /><br />Thanks for the perspectives.danchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09656663165658142443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-48438457054543521432011-02-19T10:19:42.754-06:002011-02-19T10:19:42.754-06:00Also agree completely. People struggle with the re...Also agree completely. People struggle with the reality of bike lanes because the concept, "make a safer place to ride bicycles", comes into conflict with the reality of the implementation in many examples: increased crossing conflicts with cars, cyclists, and pedestrians, new transition skills that must be learned to get in and out of the bike lane and through intersections, the joys of a new driveway staging zone, and of course, new door zone dangers for bike lanes adjacent to on-street parking. Locally, it's most common for the bike lane to morph into a convenient vehicle parking area. The bike lanes I visit regularly must have been welcomed by the lawn guys and service crews, who universally use them as convenient parking zones for their trucks, unbothered by lawmen. So I'm in the street anyway there: it's not practicable to ride through a truck; it's not safe to weave in and out of the bike lane to dodge obstructions.John Romeo Alphahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01289456379789026152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2523357558654725888.post-90262143130906000292011-02-19T08:33:29.332-06:002011-02-19T08:33:29.332-06:00Agree completely.
By the way, yesterday's fu...Agree completely. <br /><br />By the way, yesterday's fun in Los Alamos bikelanes continued to get interesting on my ride home. I added a postscript to the earlier post.<br /><br />http://labikes.blogspot.com/2011/02/situational-awareness-vs-right-turning.htmlKhalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866897914538110672noreply@blogger.com