ULTIMATE Driving Machine

BMW Isetta, Seen at Ocean Shores on April 28, 2018

Two versions of the ultimate driving machine are presented for your consideration. The second one might also fit in yesterday's "Rust Never Sleeps" post...

This Might be Considered a "Rat Rod"

Rust Never Sleeps

Anniebikes made a post about rust, here, in a gracefully aging Peugeot. Timely is as timely does, because I've just been experiencing equipment corrosion. First off, Ocean Shores is not a friendly climate when it comes to corrosion; being a narrow Peninsula that is surrounded by salt water. From here, a salt air environment is almost ideal for galvanic corrosion. This spring, I've experienced several corrosion failures. The first one was a Seiko clock that stopped working. Now, I'll have to see if there's any way to restart it so that it can show the correct time more than twice a day. It's a sentimental thing, since we can always ask Google what time it is.

Next, I noticed that all my bike chains stiffened up over the winter while we were celebrating the Holidays down in Texas. That was readily remedied by relubing the offending chains. A couple of my bike lights also stopped working. One of those (a Cateye), is now permanently dead since I'd forgotten how to open it up properly in order to change batteries.

Finally, I discovered that my Performance Bikes trunk bag zippers all froze up during the winter. It took the better part of an hour to get them working again. This is the first time I've experienced frozen bag zippers. Afterwards, I checked my Arkel and Ortlieb bag zippers and they seem to be OK. I'm not sure if Performance simply uses inferior zippers, or what the actual story is. Perhaps Performance simply used aluminum instead of steel to save weight...

Weather Wear



OE Cross Top Brake Set Screw is Starting to Corrode

 It's been said that "rust never sleeps." That has proved true this year. In contrast to years past, Buddy's gotten parked outside during the day. What's more, it's been pretty much a "rain or shine" bike. In little ways, you can see where Specialized and its component suppliers have not considered how to keep rust at bay.

OE V Brake is Not Only Ill Suited to the Bike, it's Corroding as Well. No Such Evidence on the Cantilever Brake in Back

Chrome Works Well - Until it Doesn't

Stem Bolt Corrosion on Specialized Tricross Expert after 2.5 Years of Mostly Dry Use

Carbon Corrosion

Corroded Statue of Liberty - from Wikipedia

Y'all know what corrosion is. In regular steel, it's referred to as "rust." Aluminum tends to turn to a whitish powder. Zinc is used as an anode to keep boat components from corroding.

Corrosion is not necessarily a BAD thing. It is galvanic corrosion that makes a battery work. Still, you do not want to try to use your expensive bike components to power your headlight.

Enough of that, what about corrosion and composites, you might ask? I'd respond it is a reasonable question, given the title of this post. Well, there's good news and bad news. The first, is that your new carbon bike will NOT corrode away any time soon. In point of fact, it is THE most "noble" material used in bicycle construction. It is even more stable than gold. You see, materials are susceptible to galvanic corrosion in the presence of a conductor and a more noble material. If you look at the figure below, you'll see that carbon is at the very top (I did not include materials such as gold which are only slightly worse than carbon). The "steel is real" crowd will be relieved to see that their bike material of choice IS, in fact, better than aluminium. Bringing up the bottom are things like zinc and magnesium. As I recall, a couple of years ago, Colnago built a bike with a Magnesium frame. Just because you CAN do something does NOT mean it is a good idea.

The Further Down the Scale, the Easier Carbon Will Make it Rot!

The BAD news is that your carbon won't rot away in front of your eyes, but those expensive aluminum and magnesium components ARE at risk. If, for example, you have an aluminum frame and a carbon seat post, for example, the potential exists for corrosion of the frame due to that contact. You have risk for corrosion to those cool dropouts that hold your wheel to your carbon fork.

Lest you think this is overdramatic, back when the F/A-18 fighter went into service, one went into the drink. They fished it out a couple of weeks later and the aluminum was basically GONE.

There are a couple of approaches to avoid trouble. First, avoid "intimate" contact between the carbon and metal that is more reactive than stainless steel. A rubber pad would suffice, or a swatch of fiberglass. Undamaged (no scratches or rock chips) paint and primer. Even WAX. Yay, WAX! Just keep the two apart so they can't pretend to be a battery cell. Hopefully, your bike manufacturer took this precaution in things like gluing the fork ends into the carbon. If not, you're still left with the second strategy.

The second strategy is to KEEP THINGS CLEAN AND DRY. Dirt and moisture in combination really get the galvanic action going. If it's dry, there is no medium for the electrons to zip around in. On the other hand, if you leave it out in a damp garage next to the pool chlorine tablets, you will have interesting things happening before you know it. Especially, if you have a cyclocross bike such as I do, do not wait a week before cleaning after a race.

Anyway, I don't think I have to tell you how to look for corrosion in the metal. You'll detect IT pretty easily. Clean it away until you get down to sound metal. Reprime and repaint. When you are out of sound metal, it's time for a visit to your LBS. Remember, keep that puppy clean and dry - and ESPECIALLY watch that carbon seatpost in that aluminum frame! Ham should be happy with THIS post. His carbon frame may outlast his grandchildren's grandchildren if he's lucky. They'll just have to replace the metal bits as they rot away.

I don't know if y'all can take a log of comfort in it, but I've now had Buddy for over a year and there is still sound aluminum in the frame, though I haven't attempted to remove the seatpost recently. Hmm...

A Carbon Seatpost In an Aluminum Frame is Not the Best Galvanic Combination

The Ti Rails are Not a Likely Problem

Simple Green Speaks Up

Simple Green has evaporated after nine days, leaving the foil with a green gel on it, but otherwise unaffected

In my previous post, I asked Simple Green what I needed to do to get Simple Green to actually EAT aluminum. They indicated that there was some etching with 5456 aluminum. I'm not familiar with that particular alloy, but in the Aerospace Industry, we commonly use other 5XXX alloys for aluminum honeycomb core. To summarize, I would NOT suggest soaking metal parts that have corrosion-susceptible alloys for weeks at a time in Simple Green. Use it, and then wipe/wash it away. It's what I do and I have NEVER had any problem with it. You are even LESS likely to have problems if the aluminum is painted, as on a frame. Anyway, here's the story FROM Simple Green - I sense some tenderness from them on this:

Steve A to Laura tonight:
Thank you. Your answer was very complete and helpful, and explains why I have never had any problems personally with your product, unlike with many others.

-Steve A

On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:08 PM, "Laura" wrote:

Dear Mr. Averill,

Thank you for contacting Simple Green and for your interest in Simple Green products.

Many years ago, Simple Green was submitted for Mil-Spec testing. One of the tests involved required soaking a bare piece of aluminum for 24 hours in a heated solution of 1:48 Simple Green to Water. Aluminum Alloy 5456 showed some etching and thus failed the test. Although there was no effect on some other Aluminum’s, our product was thus branded as an “aluminum eater”. I have attached a copy of this test for your records.

Simple Green will not “eat” Aluminum. It may, on certain alloys, cause indiscreet etching which may not be visible to the naked eye or at most be visible through slight discoloration.

Simple Green may present some risk if one chooses to completely immerse their Aluminum, of certain grade, in a solution for up to 24 hours. Applying and rinsing off within 5-15 minutes will not cause any sort of problems. If there is any cause for concern, you can switch to our Simple Green Pro HD solution, which has passed some Boeing and Pratt & Whitney specs allowing it to be a exterior surface wash, thus not causing any sort of problems for aluminum.

I hope you find this information useful. If you have further questions about this or other Simple Green products or uses, please feel free to contact me directly. My contact information is provided below and my regular business hours are Mon thru Fri from 8 – 5 Pacific Standard Time.

Thank you again for your inquiry.

Sincerely,
Laura
Environmental & Regulatory Coordinator
Sunshine Makers, Inc. / Simple Green
---
My original query to Simple Green:
Your FAQ suggested that Simple Green might have problems with aluminum if not used according to instructions. About the same time, it was suggested to me that Simple Green would "eat" aluminum. As a result, being an engineer, I decided to do a test and left a piece of aluminum foil immersed in Simple Green to see what, if anything, would happen. Well over the course of the last two weeks, the Simple Green has evaporated and now is Simple Green gel. What do I have to do to get the Simple Green to eat the aluminum?

Personally I LOVE Simple Green, but I DO use it to clean a lot of aluminum parts and would like to better understand when it might present some risk. Clearly it isn't real agressive towards aluminum foil when undiluted and in a clean solution.
Name: Steve Averill


PS: There was also an attached pdf to the email that showed corrosion results, but for unknown reasons I can only see it on my iPhone and can't attach it to this post. For the 6XXX alloy tested (probably what bike frames are usually made of), there was no corrosion. Interestingly, though I did not ask, it appeared that Simple Green was more likely to corrode high strength steel than aluminum or other alloys, suggesting that it would NOT be a good idea to soak a bike chain in it for an extended period. I have never done this so cannot comment from first-hand experience. Apply and remove and you'll probably not have a problem with any metal. Also, while the email did not put the testing into context, it looks like it was done in conjunction with the US Navy in 1994 based on a handwritten note at the bottom of the pdf saying "from NAVSEA, 3/24/94."

FWIW, aluminum foil may be 11XX aluminum (almost pure aluminum with not much else), or 5052. 5052 was one of the alloys tested with Simple Green and experienced no corrosion. 5052 is also a common alloy for making honeycomb core. In addition to aluminum, it has a bit of magnesium and chromium in it.

Is the Simple Green question settled, Mythbusters?